Javon Walker tidbits

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5458196Adam Schein wrote something about JW in his Foxsports article...

5. Javon Walker's stepfather told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel the wide receiver has no interest in being a Packer ever again. Walker's stepfather put Javon's house on the market over the weekend and arranged for his belongings to be shipped. He also stated that avon doesn't like the team environment, isn't happy the team let Mike Wahle, Marco Rivera, Darren Sharper and Ryan Longwell leave the last few off-seasons and also mentioned Walker isn't too fond of Brett Favre.

Other than that, he really loves being a Packer.

Houston has interest in Walker. Denver has reportedly made inquiries. Packers general manager Ted Thompson says he doesn't want to trade Walker, but here's betting he would for a third-round pick. Remember, Walker is a free agent at the end of the year, and there is no chance he re-ups with the Packers.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5458196

[ninerpride]

From those two teams listed and really any team listed that's interested in Walker, if I were him I'd want to go to the Bronocs. GB would trade him out of the conference so they most likely wouldn't have to see or play him other than once every 4 years. Denver is one very good WR I think from being a true SB contender and could even trade Lelie and the 3rd rounder for J.Walker. That'd be a great deal for both sides since it's been rumored too that the Broncos have been looking to possibly deal Lelie the past few months.

I'd trade the Niners 3rd rounder this year and a 4th rounder next year for J.Walker but doubt that'll happen. Even with that addition of Bryant and maybe wanting to see the likes of Battle/Woods/Hamilton develop this season, adding a 80-90/1200-1400/10+ TD caliber WR that J.Walker is would be huge for this offense and especially Alexandra Smith.

Hopefully one of those 3 WRs will become that legit #2 caliber WR alongside Bryant who can be a 900-1000 yard WR eventually in a year or two. If I had to make a guess, I think Woods would be the most likely candidate if he's relatively healthy from here out.

[communistbloc]

In the other thread you say Johnson isn't elite yet because he hasn't had a 100 catch season but has had 3 90 catch seasons in a row. Here you say Walker is a "80-90/1200-1400/10+ TD caliber WR" but he did that only once in his career. If you're going to diss Johnson, then don't give credit to Walker until he puts up at least a second season of the same numbers.

[anp100]

The Packers are faced with a pissed of Javon Walker that will never re-sign with these guys after 2006. They can hold the line and keep him, then end up with zip after this year or they can trade him for something/someone.

Lelie and a 3rd rounder might work, but he's been considered an underachiever and not a very hard worker. Here's another idea...as much as I like Arnez Battle, I would consider trading him and our late 3rd for Walker, depending on what McCarthy's view of Battle is of course (having coached him last year).

Obviously, Walker has much more upside than Battle, but AB is under contract for a few years, knows McCarthy and his system and is familiar with the Midwest having played for ND. Throw in the late 3rd we got for B-Lloyd and I'd say it's a good deal, on the condition that we can negotiate a long-term deal with Walker. Essentially, we've have traded B-Lloyd and Battle for Walker (and a 4th next year)...call me crazy, but I think that deal would actually favor us AND benefit the Fudge Packers.

That would give us 2 absolutely legitimate weapons at WR!!!

Walker
Bryant
Hamilton
Gilmore
Woods
Maxwell/McCaddley

[ninerpride]

Those are the types of WR numbers I think J.Walker could have. It's not like I said J.Walker is an elite WR. I mean I think there's a difference between projecting what kind of stats you think a WR is gonna put up and saying another WR isn't elite in one's opinion. Hell J.Walker had more TDs in his first 3 seasons in the NFL than C.Johnson did while playing a smaller role in his first two seasons with the Packers being the #2 WR behind a vet like Driver and probably would've had a very good year last season statwise if not for his knee injury.

Larry Fitzgerald has only had 1 year in 2005 where he caught 100+ balls, 1400 yards, and 10+ TDs...yet you wouldn't project similar type numbers for him this season and for the forseeable future. So I should've give credit to Fitz until he has another breakout season in 2006 which most think he will.

[diggity]

Originally Posted by communistbloc

In the other thread you say Johnson isn't elite yet because he hasn't had a 100 catch season but has had 3 90 catch seasons in a row. Here you say Walker is a "80-90/1200-1400/10+ TD caliber WR" but he did that only once in his career. If you're going to diss Johnson, then don't give credit to Walker until he puts up at least a second season of the same numbers.

Good point. But it doesn't negate the fact that Eric Johnson is greatly overrated.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Originally Posted by diggity

Good point. But it doesn't negate the fact that Eric Johnson is greatly overrated.

Uhh, they were talking CHAD Johnson buddy.

[diggity]

Originally Posted by Wiseman

Uhh, they were talking CHAD Johnson buddy.

oh, anyhow

[communistbloc]

Haha, I love you Diggity.

[John]

Originally Posted by ninerpride

Those are the types of WR numbers I think J.Walker could have. It's not like I said J.Walker is an elite WR. I mean I think there's a difference between projecting what kind of stats you think a WR is gonna put up and saying another WR isn't elite in one's opinion. Hell J.Walker had more TDs in his first 3 seasons in the NFL than C.Johnson did while playing a smaller role in his first two seasons with the Packers being the #2 WR behind a vet like Driver and probably would've had a very good year last season statwise if not for his knee injury.

Larry Fitzgerald has only had 1 year in 2005 where he caught 100+ balls, 1400 yards, and 10+ TDs...yet you wouldn't project similar type numbers for him this season and for the forseeable future. So I should've give credit to Fitz until he has another breakout season in 2006 which most think he will.

el oh el That's fine and dandy that these other WRs put up better #s during their 1st few years in the league which will give them a better chance at having great career #s.. but Chad Johnson still has been one of the best/elite WRs in the league the last 3 years any way you cut it. Fitz may have more upside, but that's a completely different topic. LeBron James has probably as good stats as anyone in his first 3 years in the league, but I still wouldn't take him over Kobe, today.

[ninerpride]

Hey, you can call C.Johnson an elite WR, I'm not going to and I think there are probably a lot who feel strongly on both sides if you asked them this question. I have him being a VERY GOOD WR but I think the attention he gets for his "TD celebrations" gets him a little more hype than he deserves.

But you ask me now who'd I'd rather have between C.Johnson and Fitzgerald in the 2006 season, I'd take Fitzgerald even in his 3rd season in the league.

Just as I've used many times on this argument...would you say Carson Palmer isn't one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the NFL currently only after one great season? You wouldn't take Palmer with only 2 years of experience starting and having that one great season over veteran QBs like Hasselback, T.Green, Delhomme, Vick, Bulger and other pro bowl caliber QBs who have more experience than a Palmer does?

[John]

Originally Posted by ninerpride

Hey, you can call C.Johnson an elite WR, I'm not going to and I think there are probably a lot who feel strongly on both sides if you asked them this question. I have him being a VERY GOOD WR but I think the attention he gets for his "TD celebrations" gets him a little more hype than he deserves.

But you ask me now who'd I'd rather have between C.Johnson and Fitzgerald in the 2006 season, I'd take Fitzgerald even in his 3rd season in the league.

Just as I've used many times on this argument...would you say Carson Palmer isn't one of the top 3 or 4 QBs in the NFL currently only after one great season? You wouldn't take Palmer with only 2 years of experience starting and having that one great season over veteran QBs like Hasselback, T.Green, Delhomme, Vick, Bulger and other pro bowl caliber QBs who have more experience than a Palmer does?

Well, none of those guys are elite QBs though Green is pretty borderline even though the Chiefs like to run that ball into the end zone. You might think I'm crazy for liking Green, but all he has to throw to is Gonzalez .. and Kennison.. so I'm wondering where the other 2000 yards are going to! haha Palmer isn't in the same league as Brady, Manning, Favre.. yet. Again, I agree if going by potential, then I would take Palmer over the guys you listed and Fitz over Chad. I do think Fitz has the physical tools to dominate. Deion was flashy as hell, and he turned out alright. <- endzone dance

[communistbloc]

Chad Johnson has done what he's done for 2 out of 3 years with Kitna, and a first year Palmer before he exploded onto the scene. 2 90 catch+ seasons with mediocre QBs is much more impressive than a team with no running game who needed to throw every down basically. I'm not taking away from Fitz or Boldin, but when you have 2 100+ catch receivers on the same team (with one missing 2 full games), you know something isn't right in Dodge.

Chad Johnson in 2005: 5th in receptions, 3rd in yardage, 9th in TDs Saying this isn't an elite receiver I can't understand.

[ninerpride]

You wanna talk about working with mediocre QBs, what do you think Fitzgerald had to work with last year when he had McCown who is an inconsistant and young QB and a washed up Warner throwing him the ball with NO RUNNING GAME as the Cards rushing attacked ranked DEAD LAST in every single RB category from attempts, yards, ypc, and rushing TDs.

I think what Fitzgerald accomplished with those drawbacks around him was a much more impressive feat than what C.Johnson had who has had a GREAT running game with Dillion/R.Johnson. Kitna, maybe he is mediocre but he's still was a better QB that year and in his career than McCown ever was the past two seasons and what Warner is currently. As for Palmer, with or without C.Johnson, I'd put him 3rd on my list of QBs behind P.Manning and Brady...if Fitz had any kind of QB of the caliber of a Palmer, he'd be unstoppable.

Fitz ranked 1st in catches(103), T-4th in TDs(10), 4th in receiving yards(1409)...only 23 yards fewer than C.Johnson.

[communistbloc]

I have to disagree with you saying Warner wasn't a good QB. He had an 85 rating with a 65% completion rate. McCown, although young, still had a 60.4% completion rate. Here's the kicker though. Add up the two QBs attempts and you have 645. This even beats "I'll throw the ball whenever I want" Favre. That's about 100 more attempts than an average QB gets.

If Carson Palmer throws the ball 100 more times, I guarantee CJ gets 100 receptions and TJ gets almost 100, possibly 100.

I just don't understand how you can say someone with 1 year under his belt who was the only passing target for 1/4 of the season and only one of 2 for the other 3/4 of the season is better than Chad Johnson who has put up the same great numbers year after year after year. I'm not dissing Fitz since I think he will be one of the next elite receivers, but at the moment CJ is in that tier.

[ninerpride]

Warner was a horrible starting QB last year who put up average numbers but having the same amount of TDs to INTs is pretty bad especially for veteran QB. I mean K.Collins put up very good numbers last year on the surface but would you say he had a good year? I know many Raider fans who were HAPPY as hell they didn't bring him back. Warner and McCown last year would've ranked in the bottom half of QB rankings.


Warner(2005)1836 yards and 11 TDs/9 INTs.
McCown(2005)-2713 yards and 9 TDs/11 INTs.

Palmer's and Kitna's numbers the past 3 seasons as the starting Bengals QB.

Kitna(2003)-63% completion, 3571 yards and 26 TDs/15 INTs.
Palmer(2004)-61% completion, 2897 yards and 18 TDs/18 INTs.
Palmer(2005)-68% completion, 3836 yards and 32 TDs/12 INTs.


If Fitz had an ELITE RUNNING GAME and QB like C.Johnson had, I think Fitz would have just as good of numbers as he had last year, maybe even better cause defenses wouldn't have to key on a 1 dementional offense yet even with that, defenses still couldn't stop Fitz.


Man are you on the C.Johnson fan club or something? So what if I don't put him in the elite of WRs....it's not like I said he's overrated or not a VERY GOOD QB. I just wouldn't put him in my top 5 or 6 WRs in the league right now.

TO, Holt, Harrison, R.Moss, Fitz, and S.Smith I'd put ahead of him currently.

I'd put C.Johnson in the same category of C.Portis at RBs. Both have had very good 3 or 4 years but I wouldn't say either are in the elite of their categories. Portis has averged 13 TDs and rushed for over 1500+ yards in 3 of his 4 years in the NFL...yet I wouldn't put him on a level of a LT, Edge, and even to a point LJ who I doubt most people now wouldn't put an the elite category after his IMPRESSIVE 2nd half last season with KC.

[communistbloc]

I'd drop Moss since his last two years have been lackluster. I'd also not include Fitz yet since he had 1 year of great play. TO is good, but only when he's not a bitch. I'd say the top 4 receivers are Holt, Smith, CJ, and Harrison.

[John]

Anyone else notice that Harrison's #s are less and less impressive as the years go on? He's still an elite WR and clearly the go to guy when it comes to the red zone, but he seems to be on the decline.. while Reggie Wayne has been on the rise.

Maybe Chad puts up consistant #s because he's had consistant QBs though he has averaged more catches and yards than Harrison the past 3 years but averaged about 9TDs to Harrison's 12.

Maybe Fitz and Boldin caught so many passes because Arizona is throwing 645 times a season.

Maybe Woods and Hamilton stop blowing each other and actually get on the football field.

[ninerpride]

Rice's and Harrison's #s thru their first 10 years.

Rice-820 receptions for 13275 yards, 131 TDs.
Harrison-927 receptions for 12331 yards, 110 TDs.

[John]

So does that make Rice an elite WR today?

[ninerpride]

You serious? Rice was thought to be the best WR in NFL history after his 8th season when he broke mostly all the WR records set before him.

I mean he had HUGE years in his 9th and 10th year and if you averaged them out, he'd ranked 1st in catches(107), 2nd in yards(1501) and 1st in overall TD(16) in the 2005 season.

[ROW]

Originally Posted by fan49ers

So does that make Rice an elite WR today?

I often agree with you and find your statements enlightening but have you lost your mind? Rice is the best of all time. You are joking right, sarcasm?

[John]

You both are misunderstanding me. Rice is the GOAT. What I mean by 'today' is if he is still an elite WR if he were to lace up his cleats in 2006.. if teams would still gameplan for him today. Clearly, he's not an elite WR as he's out of the league. Earlier I said Harrison looks like he's lost a step and might be on decline, and Chad Johnson has put up better #s than him and could've taken Harrison's spot amongst elite WRs today. When I said that I'm not judging by career because clearly both Rice and Harrison are the top 2 productive WRs in the history of the league in that regard. Sorry for the miscommunication.

[HomestarRunner]

Originally Posted by fan49ers

You both are misunderstanding me. Rice is the GOAT. What I mean by 'today' is if he is still an elite WR if he were to lace up his cleats in 2006.. if teams would still gameplan for him today. Clearly, he's not an elite WR as he's out of the league. Earlier I said Harrison looks like he's lost a step and might be on decline, and Chad Johnson has put up better #s than him and could've taken Harrison's spot amongst elite WRs today. When I said that I'm not judging by career because clearly both Rice and Harrison are the top 2 productive WRs in the history of the league in that regard. Sorry for the miscommunication.

You mean would Jerry Rice in his prime be an elite WR if he were playing in 2006? No...he'd be the best WR in 2006. Yes WR's have gotten bigger, but when JR was in his prime he was as close to the perfect WR as there's been to this day. Of course you can't prove somthing like this without time travel but IMHO there is absolutly no question.

[communistbloc]

No, he's saying that if Rice were to step on the field today he wouldn't be one of the best receivers today. Harrison is on the decline (that's why I have him 4th) and I would have both Boldin and Fitz ready to take over his spot if he puts up another great, but not elite year and either of them did. CJ has been consistent and has had great years in the past 3. If that doesn't qualify you as an elite receiver, I don't know what could.